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Where I was born? Well, actually, I was born in Los Angeles, California, but only as a convenience to my mother. I was born out there and brought back to Gallup. So I always like to sort of say that I was born and raised in Gallup, because this is where I grew up. From then on, I went to college, went in the Air Force, twice: was in World War II and Korea, and then got out. I came back to Gallup for a while, went down to Phoenix. Down in Phoenix is where I first got into sort of the Indian market, 'cause my father-in-law and his brother-in-law had an Indian store down there-a fellah by the name of Clarence Wheeler. You may have heard his name mentioned. And so they asked me if I'd come down there and learn to buy rugs, from Clarence. We went out on the reservation, all over the reservation, and bought rugs. It was very interesting, and he taught me a lot about rugs, and then I started doin' it on my own, traveled the reservation for, I think, about two years. And then I was recalled during the Korean War and went back in active duty.
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